Finding the numbers

[django]

Hello to everybody. I finished Phil’s book about a week ago and have been reading his blog and this forum since then, in preparation for paper trading. I have been reading that the numbers on MSN are not quite accurate. I am using the manual excel sheet that Justin designed, which is a huge help! Thank you so much for all of this Justin! I will upgrade to Investools if all goes well with paper trading.

I am hoping that fellow forum members could help me find reliable sources for the numbers and maybe create a good list here for reference.

Here is what I’m looking for:

ROIC 5yr 1yr
Currently using MSN/financial results/ key ratios/ investment returns/ return on capital and return on capital (5-year average)

EQUITY - 10 yrs of numbers.
Currently using MSN/financial results/ key ratios/ Ten year summary/ Book Value/Share

EPS
Currently using MSN/financial results/ statements/ 10 year summary/ EPS

SALES – 10 yrs of numbers
Currently using MSN/financial results/ statements/ 10 year summary/ Sales

CASH FLOW – 10 yrs of numbers
Currently using MSN/financial results/ statements/ Cashflow/ Free cash flow (at bottom)
Also watching out that intangibles on Balance sheet are not too high.

?? Is MORNINGSTAR/ 10-yr cash flows/ free cashflow better? They have ten years, but the numbers are different from MSN. How do I calculate the best numbers to use for this?

DEBT - 10 yrs of numbers
Currently using MSN/financial results/ statements/ 10 year summary/ long term debt

CURRENT P/E
Currently using MSN/ Quotes/ P/E


CURRENT EPS
Currently using MSN/ Quotes/ Earnings/Share
?? Is it better to add quarterly EPS data at Marketwatch? If so, where do I find the quarterly EPS numbers on Marketwatch and what are they called there?

HISTORICAL P/E
Currently using MSN/financial results/ key ratios/ Ten year summary/ Avg P/E
Using the average of the 10 years of info.

[rharmelink]

I would suggest trying to get the numbers from AdvFN. They have annual financial data going back farther than any other source I've seen. I think the oldest data they have is from 1993. For example:

http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=finan...rts&symbol=IBM

The biggest problem I've had with financial statements is that each web site seems to have its own definitions of how to pigeonhole the SEC filings.

[rharmelink]

PS: I wouldn't use Morningstar. From what I've seen in comparing financial statement data between web sites, theirs is quite often the last to be updated when new SEC filings come through.

[django]

Thanks rharmelink! I'm going to go take a look at AdvFN now.

[django]

So I took rharmelink’s advice and used AdvFN as a source for all of the numbers. They are all there and they are all going back 10+ years which is better than any other site I’ve seen. Here is where I found all of the numbers on the site. Please let me know if these are correct and if I am doing this right. I would really appreciate feedback so I can start off on the right foot:

www.advfn.com
financials section

CURRENT EPS
Company Data Section/ Top Bar
:EPS

CURRENT P/E
Company Data Section/ Top Bar
: P/E

ROCI
Annual Reports Section/ Profitability Category
:Return On Capital Invested (ROCI)

EPS
Annual Reports Section/ Income Statement (Year-To-Date) Category
:EPS From Total Operations (YTD)

SALES
Annual Reports Section/ Income Statement (Year-To-Date) Category
:Revenue (YTD)

CASH FLOW
Annual Reports Section/ Equity & Liabilities Section
?? Which is the best one to use for this? Free Cash Flow? Cash Flow? Net Cash From Total Operating Activities? (see book p. 233) I need help with this one.

DEBT
Annual Reports Section/ Equity & Liabilities Section
:Long-term debt


So please give me some feedback to let me know if I am using the right numbers, and if you could help me find the cash flow numbers, I would be mighty grateful!

[rharmelink]

For cash flow, the automated spreadsheet appears to be adding together:

net cash from continuing operations
purchase of property, plant & equipment

[django]

That sounds right rharmelink...

I just found and read Phil's entry about calculating CASH FLOW on his blog:

http://philtown.typepad.com/phil_tow...t_pays_to.html

here's the quote:

"Take Net Cash Provided by Operations and subtract the Capital Expenditures."

So for cash Flow

"Use Net Cash from continuing operations" minus "purchase of property, plant & equipment"

Are you sure it's not "Net cash from total operating activities"

Does everything else up there look good? If it does, we can make that the master list for reference, until something better comes along!

Let me know if it looks good.

[rharmelink]

-- I think it has to be from continuing operations instead of total operations. Since you're using these numbers to forecast forward, it just wouldn't make sense to me to include cash flow from operations that are being discontinued.

-- At least on AdvFN, the capital expenditures are stated as negative numbers, so I think you want to add them instead of subtract them.

[django]

Here's a more refined list including historic P/E data from AdvFN:

CURRENT EPS
Company Data Section/ Top Bar

CURRENT P/E
Company Data Section/ Top Bar

ROCI
Annual Reports Section/ Profitability Category
Return On Capital Invested (ROCI)

EQUITY
Annual Reports Section/ Capital Structure Ratios Category
Book Value per Share

EPS
Annual Reports Section/ Income Statement (Year-To-Date) Category
EPS From Total Operations (YTD)

SALES
Annual Reports Section/ Income Statement (Year-To-Date) Category
Revenue (YTD)

CASH FLOW
Annual Reports Section/ Cash-flow statement Category and Investing Activities Category
Net Cash from continuing Operations plus Purchase of Property, Plant and Equpt. (Purchase of Property, Plant and Equpt. is usually a negative number)

DEBT
Annual Reports Section/ Equity & Liabilities Category
Long-term debt

HISTORIC P/E
Annual Reports Section/ Profit Margins Category
Average of High PE Ratio and Low PE Ratio


Any more comments on this?

[patfergie44]

In Phil's book, he mentions using MSN's "Free Cash Flow". However, in his blog, he admits that MSN does not calculate this correctly. The MSN spreadsheet is now pulling data from Marketwatch and bringing Cash in according to how Phil mentions on his blog. I haven't studied Advfn but rharmelink is right - take "net cash from continuing operations" and then ADD the NEGATIVE "purchase of property, plant & equipment". So, Phil's example of Ebay would be 2009.9+(-338.3) which gives us 1671.6. (I think he came up with 1656 but this is the way he explained it.) MSN came up with a negative -1060 which is a HUGE difference.