Is Value Investing passé?

[Gunnski]

Bovverd,

(2) questions?

1. Have you made any money in the market?

2. Do you know what K.I.S.S. means?

Respectfully submitted.

[bovverd]

Originally Posted by Gunnski

Bovverd,

(2) questions?

1. Have you made any money in the market?

2. Do you know what K.I.S.S. means?

Respectfully submitted.

1) Yes - Began at the beginning of this year and currently have returns of 23.6% against the S&P's -12.17% and the DOW's -12.6%. What relevance does this have with anything ? Are you hoping lack of returns undermines my approach? What about you ?

2) Erm....er........hang on ive got it how about Keep it simple. (The second 's' is a needless complication in direct contradiction to this principle.) Keep it simple and stupid. Keep it small and simple. Keep it sweet and simple. Keep it simple and straightforward. Keep it short and simple. Keep it short and sweet. Keep it smart and simple. Keep it strictly simple. Keep it simply simple. Keep it simply stated. Keep it stupid... simple! (A sarcastic criticism that illustrates a common misreading and misuse of the KISS principle.)

So are you calling me stupid or simple ?

[rei46]

Originally Posted by Gunnski

Bovverd,

(2) questions?

1. Have you made any money in the market?

2. Do you know what K.I.S.S. means?

Respectfully submitted.

Ah respect. Everyone wants it, but some (see above) just don't have a clue.

Bovverd, Its a waste of time replying to this kind of post. Its trivial and does not add anything of value. Unless its something like "wow, yeah, u da man" I would not bother. Anything opinion contrary to Gunnski's writing gets this type of response.

This is a value investing forum right?

Lesson i learned, don't judge by the number of posts. Its a good idea to search all the posts by a person. You can learn alot.

Yes some people make money from TA. A lot of money? Maybe a small percentage. How do they make money? From all the others who try and lose their shirts. Good on you if you are one of the former. The book deal is coming.

Personally, its not for me. I have other things I want to pursue rather than watching charts hours a day trying to get out before everyone else. Also having to pay short term gains on it all.

Is value investing passe... Only time will tell. Or has it already?

[npg]

It has to be said that it is important to question even one's own belief systems from time to time. Not only does this make one a better investor, it also makes one a better citizen.

In today's climate there simply is not enough independent thought. We simply do not encourage such, and contribute to a climate where this is possible. We all need to work on this. It's our duty.

[tombrown1]

Okay, a few responses:

First of all Gunnski, that was a little out of line. Returns or lack thereof shouldn't keep a person from posting.

This is not a strictly value investment forum. It was started as a forum for Phil Town's Rule #1 readers. And Phil uses TA. That's why people talk about TA on this forum. Nobody is hijacking.

rei46, lots of people make a ton of money from TA. It's a fact. I couldn't follow the rest of your paragraph about shirts and book deals.

It doesn't require watching charts hours a day. I would argue that it takes less time to do than value investing. Are you thinking of day trading? Not all technical analysts are day traders.

npg, once again spot on.

[bovverd]

Originally Posted by rei46

Ah respect. Everyone wants it, but some (see above) just don't have a clue.

Bovverd, Its a waste of time replying to this kind of post. Its trivial and does not add anything of value. Unless its something like "wow, yeah, u da man" I would not bother. Anything opinion contrary to Gunnski's writing gets this type of response.

This is a value investing forum right?

Lesson i learned, don't judge by the number of posts. Its a good idea to search all the posts by a person. You can learn alot.

Yes some people make money from TA. A lot of money? Maybe a small percentage. How do they make money? From all the others who try and lose their shirts. Good on you if you are one of the former. The book deal is coming.

Personally, its not for me. I have other things I want to pursue rather than watching charts hours a day trying to get out before everyone else. Also having to pay short term gains on it all.

Is value investing passe... Only time will tell. Or has it already?

What a big tough keyboard warrior Gunnski is. The ironic thing about calling me simple or stupid is that hes the one squatting on a value investing site preaching TA and becoming offended when any value investors do not agree.

A classic example of both simple and stupid.

Your on the wrong message board - You'll get far less 'resistance' if you go elsewhere and find yourself forums better suited to what you do.

You have also failed to respond to my question on your own returns? I wonder why.......

[npg]

BRK Letter to shareholders 1992

But how, you will ask, does one decide what's "attractive"?
In answering this question, most analysts feel they must choose
between two approaches customarily thought to be in opposition:
"value" and "growth." Indeed, many investment professionals see
any mixing of the two terms as a form of intellectual cross-
dressing.

We view that as fuzzy thinking (in which, it must be
confessed, I myself engaged some years ago). In our opinion, the
two approaches are joined at the hip: Growth is always a component
in the calculation of value, constituting a variable whose
importance can range from negligible to enormous and whose impact
can be negative as well as positive.

In addition, we think the very term "value investing" is
redundant. What is "investing" if it is not the act of seeking
value at least sufficient to justify the amount paid? Consciously
paying more for a stock than its calculated value - in the hope
that it can soon be sold for a still-higher price - should be
labeled speculation (which is neither illegal, immoral nor - in our
view - financially fattening).

There you have it. Straight from the horse's mouth. The term value investing is redundant.

As far as TA is concerned---even though it doesn't work for me---it does have it's place and it is worth discussing intelligently.

[Gunnski]

Hello,

This has gotten entirely out of hand. I find it a great waste of time.

I apologize to any and all I have offended. That certainly was not my intent. I do not intentionally call people stupid, (unless I am driving on the freeway). I am very sorry!

I posted those (2) simple items above, not to demean or find fault. I am simply tired of the continued comments re: T.A. & vodoo, squiggly lines etc.

Those that try to cross sabers & argue all the time and never have anything positive to offer, wastes people time. There is no learning process to be gained. My narrow minded point was to put up or shut up. P/L is the bottom line at this casino. Yes, it is not a badge of honor, but should be reviewed/evaluated for positive results. I think that is why we are all here.

K.I.S.S. can mean many things to many people. Certainly it is not to incinuate some one is stupid. My message there, as I have said on this board many times. Don't over handicap! Don't get bogged down in all the crap.

The messages full of fundamentals are neat, but only price pays. If you got something that works & want to help people out. Post it.

I really do not care what you use! But, to attack a methodolgy that another is using to make money, is like telling them they have an ugly baby or the meal they cooked for you sucks.

My post above was to try and get some people to think outside the box a little. It was not an attack, snipe or whatever you want to call it.

If you are tracking me close enough to know how many posts & what my posts are. I hope you have learned something. If my average post of 1 per day is excessive, please let me know.

Keep it simple silly and maybe we will all fatten that P/L box on our online trading acct.

Best of investing!

[bovverd]

Originally Posted by Gunnski

Hello,

This has gotten entirely out of hand. I find it a great waste of time.

I apologize to any and all I have offended. That certainly was not my intent. I do not intentionally call people stupid, (unless I am driving on the freeway). I am very sorry!

I posted those (2) simple items above, not to demean or find fault. I am simply tired of the continued comments re: T.A. & vodoo, squiggly lines etc.

Those that try to cross sabers & argue all the time and never have anything positive to offer, wastes people time. There is no learning process to be gained. My narrow minded point was to put up or shut up. P/L is the bottom line at this casino. Yes, it is not a badge of honor, but should be reviewed/evaluated for positive results. I think that is why we are all here.

K.I.S.S. can mean many things to many people. Certainly it is not to incinuate some one is stupid. My message there, as I have said on this board many times. Don't over handicap! Don't get bogged down in all the crap.

The messages full of fundamentals are neat, but only price pays. If you got something that works & want to help people out. Post it.

I really do not care what you use! But, to attack a methodolgy that another is using to make money, is like telling them they have an ugly baby or the meal they cooked for you sucks.

My post above was to try and get some people to think outside the box a little. It was not an attack, snipe or whatever you want to call it.

If you are tracking me close enough to know how many posts & what my posts are. I hope you have learned something. If my average post of 1 per day is excessive, please let me know.

Keep it simple silly and maybe we will all fatten that P/L box on our online trading acct.

Best of investing!

What a load of fluff. Your losing the little bit of credibility you had by not explaining your remarks. You think you can make statements and then backtrack when they cause offence.

If you didnt intentionally call me stupid what did you actually mean by the k.i.s.s question then ? This should be fairly 'simple' to answer.

At what point did I start slating TA? I never mentioned a single word about TA I was talking about GROWTH business's which are not exclusive to TA. You can use technical analysis methods with investing in anything. You can get MA / MACD crossover buy and sell signals on ANYTHING so quite why you are getting upset with someone talking unfavourably about GROWTH is a mystery to me. I thought you were intelligent enough to understand the difference between growth and TA.

How does your two patronising questions get people thinking out of the box? More fluff.

Your full of contradictions - You say attacking someone else methods is as bad as calling someones baby ugly or slating their food but thats exactly what you do if anyone on here doesnt follow TA.

You still havent replied regarding your own returns either.

Maybe sitting on a value investing forum all day everyday having to defend your TA world against people who will naturally favour the value approach has made you a bit jumpy because you seem to be ultra sensitive to any remarks regarding anything.

The bottom line is you are only man enough to start name calling for the 'simple' reason that you can hide behind a keyboard using the internet and never in a million years would you dare to call me stupid if we were standing face to face so your pathetic little remarks and name calling are about as sad as it gets.

The standard of dialogue and level of content on this message board is very high so be a man and dont mug yourself of by getting into childish keyboard warrior name calling games just because you do not agree with someones comments.

[rei46]

Originally Posted by tombrown1

Okay, a few responses:

This is not a strictly value investment forum. It was started as a forum for Phil Town's Rule #1 readers. And Phil uses TA. That's why people talk about TA on this forum. Nobody is hijacking.

rei46, lots of people make a ton of money from TA. It's a fact. I couldn't follow the rest of your paragraph about shirts and book deals.

It doesn't require watching charts hours a day. I would argue that it takes less time to do than value investing. Are you thinking of day trading? Not all technical analysts are day traders.

To elaborate on where I am coming from. TA trading defined as making trades solely on charting, price history. Valuation, fundimentals are not considered. Trades are turned over in a much shorter time. From less then a month to less than a day. So I include day traders in this but not exclusively. I think TA in conjunction with doing the research is a better way to choose your buying and selling decisions. The reason I am attracted to R1. Iprefer layers of protection. From what I researched, more people lose money than gain using TA alone. Stop loss protection is good. But price can go up/down for any or no reason. How many rebuys of a stock would one make if TA kept saying to get in only to later trigger a stop at a loss? Just my thinking/opinion. If it is working for others its great.

Technical traders ask when, R1/Value asks why.

I understand that there are many shades of grey in the naming different investing styles, as NPG wrote, but this is what we have to describe our processes we go through to make buy/sell decisions.

As I said before, I welcome input, advice, difference of opinion. I admit I'm not a experinced investor. But, if certain posters can't play nicely well...

The poster Gunnski is abusive, defensive, unable to have a healthy discussion. I made a comment/observation on a post of his and he got offended. A new member here started a post to ask a question about using Advfn and Gunn hijacked it touting his TA picks for the guy to check out. Nothing about the question he had.

What you do speaks so loud I cannot hear what you say~Ralph Waldo Emerson